OBT Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

AU Developers - Please PM Knightmare or MechRat if you need board or permission changes

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: The war in Ukraine just got started...  (Read 45909 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
The war in Ukraine just got started...
« on: February 23, 2022, 10:42:41 PM »

The subject heading says it all.

Details at

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

and elsewhere.
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2022, 05:40:05 AM »

When does the BattleTech timeline talk about the Second Soviet Civil War? Pretty sad state of affairs.
Logged

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2022, 07:04:20 AM »

It was fought from 2011-14.

(It's never come up in an actual game as yet, but I've always ignored the - very unchacteristically - badly thought-out retcon by Chris Hartford in The BattleSpace Rulebook, that even poor Mike "Cray" Miller couldn't manage to further retcon into something believable in Jihad: Terra, about the Warsaw Pact unraveling in 1984 and then being forcibly reconstituted in a Soviet Blitzkrieg in 1997. For my own purposes, I assume that most of the history of the Cold War was the same as in the real world until 1988, when Mikhail Gorbachev died in either a genuine accident or an assassination disguised as one, following which Glasnost and Perestroika were abandoned in favour of a reversion to the bad old ways for the next 17 years.)

Either way, economic collapse in 2005 brought another reformist leader named Oleg Tikonov to power, but he was assassinated by a jihadist suicide bomber in 2011. Then rival factions in the Communist Party and the military turned on each other in the Second Soviet Civil War. Eventually NATO invaded successfully in 2014 to end the anarchy and the 7 (not 15 as in the real world) successor polities subsequently spent decades under Western Alliance occupation. Oh, if only! :(

Edit:
Either way too, technology progressed a good deal faster, with military scramjet spaceplanes in the 1980s, a permanent modular space station in the 1990s, orbiting laser platforms capable of shooting down ICBMs by the 2010s and of course a working fusion reactor design in the 2020s. Again, oh, if only! :(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 04:10:36 PM by Hominid Mk II »
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2022, 08:46:41 AM »

Have two faculty members I work with that are from the region. One's family is currently in the occupied area and is extremely worried for them as they are trying to get out but its difficult. The other is from further west near Moldova border.

I think this is going to get nothing but worse. They have no real faith in the government of Ukraine, very corrupt, but they know that most Ukrainians HATE Russia so it will be a bitter fight especially if they begin guerilla actions. On one side I'm like we should stay out of it on other if we don't finally stand up to him its just going to get worse. He's already taken over Georgia, Crimea and just recently I heard he had troops in Kazakhstan.

And can we say Simpsons called it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z77JFw2D6f8
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2022, 09:39:42 AM »

There's no point in my pretending to be anything other than a total hawk when it comes to the need for containing Russia and China. The absolute minimum that NATO should be doing right now is selling Ukraine and Taiwan thermobaric (fuel-air) bombs in large quantities. MOABs and bunker-busters too. And, of course, Patriot systems.
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2022, 01:36:38 PM »

I've got to say I've been watching French 24 and Skynews all day for updates and info, it is soooo much better than American News. Hearing what Saudi Arabia thinks about this and Joe Biden (whom they hate) is so interesting to hear about.

Sanctions aren't going to cut it and with his threat of basically taking back the Baltic states again this just needs to be nipped. I don't know why they don't just take out Putin and see what happens.
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2022, 02:22:41 PM »

IIRC, there was some kind of accord signed something like 200 years ago, by all the Great Powers of Europe at the time, that even when two countries are at war it's forbidden for either side to try to assassinate the serving head of state or head of government in the other. That would have been assumed at the time to automatically mean a hereditary monarch or his appointed chief minister, but it later came to mean an elected politician or even a military dictator too. And it's suited nearly every head of state or head of government since then to adhere to it, to minimize the risk to themselves.

Also, the U.S. Congress enacted legislation in the 1970s forbidding any member or employee of the government to engage in assassinations under any circumstances. Probably reacting against the revelation of all the failed half-assed CIA conspiracies to kill Fidel Castro.

I've already posted on Facebook that I believe the UK should have started trying to kill Putin years ago in reprisal for the successful and failed assassinations his death squads have staged on our soil. Barbarians deserve barbaric deaths.
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2022, 03:10:35 PM »

Sanctions aren't going to cut it and with his threat of basically taking back the Baltic states again this just needs to be nipped. I don't know why they don't just take out Putin and see what happens.

Agreed, this is a very dangerous situation. Sanctions have to be total and include countries who continue to trade with Putin.

Surprised the Ukrainians haven't thought about utilizing Chernobyl against the Russians. I see the site has been taken according to the latest reports but any damage done there would be horrific to the entire world. In short, this conflict could easily go to a level that has never been seen before.
Logged

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2022, 03:33:31 PM »

I'm sure Chernobyl doesn't still contain any weapons-grade uranium or plutonium that Ukraine could use to make its own nukes, if it ever did. All it would be good for now would be as a source of radioactive rusted metal or crumbling concrete that could be pulverized into dust for use in terrorist "dirty bombs" intended to kill people with radiation poisoning.

And if Putin tried to demand NATO withdrawal from the Baltic states or else it's World War III, and I was President Biden, I'd stand firm no matter what the consequences. Better Armageddon for us all than to ever again grovel to evil like Neville Chamberlain did.
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2022, 06:02:38 PM »

I'm sure Chernobyl doesn't still contain any weapons-grade uranium or plutonium that Ukraine could use to make its own nukes, if it ever did. All it would be good for now would be as a source of radioactive rusted metal or crumbling concrete that could be pulverized into dust for use in terrorist "dirty bombs" intended to kill people with radiation poisoning.

Taking the top off the place would be a poison pill that no one especially Russia wants to swallow. Desperate tactic but these are desperate times. Desperation forces some really bad actions is my point.

And if Putin tried to demand NATO withdrawal from the Baltic states or else it's World War III, and I was President Biden, I'd stand firm no matter what the consequences. Better Armageddon for us all than to ever again grovel to evil like Neville Chamberlain did.

Well put, however, the resolve of the President is still very much in doubt. Hence there has been no effective deterrence.
Logged

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2022, 09:48:56 PM »

Speaking of nukes wasnt the agreement that if ukraine gave up nukes America guaranteed to protect them
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2022, 03:56:39 AM »

That certainly matches how I remember the news coverage as the Soviet Union was collapsing. Sounds like a textbook example of the principle that "A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on!".
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2022, 10:06:21 AM »

I believe you are referring to the Budapest Memorandum
Logged

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 11:19:49 AM »

I believe you are referring to the Budapest Memorandum

Just looked it up on Wikipedia. I have no doubt that you're right. So, there was a written agreement and our gutless excuses for leaders still let Russia get away with violating it. Why am I not surprised?
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody

Hominid Mk II

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Unofficial, sure. But better than nothing, right?
Re: The war in Ukraine just got started...
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2022, 11:53:09 AM »

Take a look at this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

. It's starting to look as though most of our worst-case speculations might already be coming true.
Logged
Ever felt that The Powers That Were at FASA, WizKids and FanPro never gave Victor Steiner-Davion and the Federated Commonwealth a fair shake in the canon timeline? Then you might be interested in my Victor Victorious AU at

https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/parallel-universes/victor-victorious-redux

.

 - - - - - -

[R]ebellion is the foulest of all crimes; and what [is] to begin in wickedness must end in ruin.

--Lieutenant James Moody
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up