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Author Topic: new designs to me  (Read 19719 times)

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Hairbear541

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new designs to me
« on: July 15, 2014, 01:28:10 PM »

to master arminas , i'm not sure but I think these might be some of your designs... hector , belle isle , ardent , courageous , st. Helen & resolution if these are could I get the stats for them from you . you do a mean bit of story telling also , very engrossing and thought provocating .
 the original old salty sea dog
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Takiro

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 01:31:11 PM »

Take a look under the Samantha Calderon link I gave you yesterday Hairbear.  The master has posted several designs under a Reunification War armory and a Taurian armory.
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Hairbear541

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 02:15:55 PM »

takiro  I've tried that link you suggested and I get the caldreon , but when I try to go any further it kicks me back to this site . I guess i'm not as computer savvy as I would like to be . i even tried http://www.solaris7.com  and got kicked back here ! what am i doing wrong ?
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Hairbear541

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 02:28:21 PM »

to the mods , since i'm a taurian advocate is there any way you could change my rank emblem from the frr to the proper taurian rank emblem .
thank you .
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Hairbear541

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 03:58:16 PM »

takiro  , I got to fiddling around on the site you sent me to... eureka , hit pay dirt . yes he's got about  5 designs there . big help in my fleet design , but he's still got 8 designs  I would like to get stats for that I listed earlier . thanks a heap , it makes things so much easier .
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Takiro

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 04:46:02 PM »

You got into his Reunification War armory then now you'll need his Taurian armory.

http://solaris7.com/Armory/ArmoryInfo.asp?ID=1939

And don't forget our Taurian stuff at the Naval Archive!

http://web.archive.org/web/20090810123919/geocities.com/master_sun2000/NavArchive.html
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Hairbear541

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 08:26:30 PM »

takiro  , thanks again , I've been data mining  all the sites . i'm in naval heaven  . i'm just about where I will have a well rounded taurian navy . i'm almost at a lose for words now . where do I send a bottle of georgia moon to .
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Takiro

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 08:52:33 PM »

No problems, love to hear which onces you like the most. That will be enough thanks for me.
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masterarminas

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 11:18:59 PM »

to master arminas , i'm not sure but I think these might be some of your designs... hector , belle isle , ardent , courageous , st. Helen & resolution if these are could I get the stats for them from you . you do a mean bit of story telling also , very engrossing and thought provocating .
 the original old salty sea dog

Most of those are dead designs that I did not continue with.  The Saucy Sam, of course, is complete, as are some corvettes and destroyers, but very few other ships.

Now, the following is from back in 2008 when I was looking at the TCN for the first and imagining what it might have consisted of . . . unfortunately, the publication of the VASTLY smaller navies/armies in canon products than we fans expected means it has to change.  But it gives some idea of what I was thinking.

Quote
Topic author: master arminas
Subject: The Taurian Concordat Navy: A New Non-Canon Look
Posted on: 07/18/2008 09:43:37
Message:


 Good morning, all. I would like to explore--with your assistance--what the Navy of the Taurian Concordat would have look like at the outset of the Reunification War. From canon, we are not given very much information--other than the Taurian Navy consisted primarily of lighter vessels for the most part, and that they managed to commit over one hundred ships at the Battle of Robsart. Canon does not though give much else to go on.

What follows is my take on TCN before and during the Reunification War. As always, I am presenting this for your critiques, comments, and ideas. Let me know your thoughts, and perhaps between all of us we can see what the senior arm of the Concordat appeared like during this time frame.

The Taurian Concordat Navy of the Reunification War

In 2560, the senior naval officers of the Taurian Concordat Navy took a long hard look at their organization--the senior arm of the Taurian Defense Forces. The TCN was the pride of all Taurians, a symbol of their own independence and self-reliance, being mostly ships designed and built at home, by Taurians, for Taurians. But, with new designs, technologies, and materials appearing in the Inner Sphere, the Admirality grew concerned that the Navy might be outclassed. Already at this early date, tensions in the region were high, as the powers that would one day form the Star League conducted negotiations. House Calderon and the senior TDF officers well knew that if the Star League formed, war would only be a matter of time.

Because of that, the TCN undertook an intensive review of their forces in the late spring and summer of 2560. They were not impressed by what the review uncovered. Despite having a sizable fleet--and a large number of Inactive vessels in Reserve--these ships were for the most part lighter than their Inner Sphere counterparts, and none used any advanced materials in their construction or weapons. Convinced that their design philosophy was correct, nonetheless, the Admiralty was gravely concerned, and voiced those concerns to the Protector. In the fall of 2560, the Protector authorized the beginnings of a major naval program designed to bring new ships, new technologies, and new tactics to the Fleet. This program was expected to run over the course of the next forty years, leading to a powerful Fleet organization in 2600 that any of the Inner Sphere powers would have been hard-pressed to combat.

It was not be. When the Malagrotta Incident occured in 2573, the building program had barely begun. The chain of events set in motion by the Incident quickly escalated to war. While well-trained, with good solid ship designs that ton-for-ton outgunned and possessed more armor than their Inner Sphere counterparts, the TCN found itself outnumbered from Day 1. Despite the resounding success of Case Amber--the crippling of the Davion Fleet in a preemptive strike--the Concordat Navy quickly found itself judging its success by the loss ratio of its own ships. As existing ships were destroyed in action, replacements made their way to the front lines--but never in the numbers needed. A second matter for concern was crew training. Unlike the original high-trained and motivated crews with which the TCN began the war, many of the personnel aboard the new ships had little or no experience on a deep-space combat vessel. The TCN attempted to rotate a cadre of experienced crew to each vessel, but wartime losses only compounded that problem. Slowly, the highly-trained Concordat Navy began to lose its finely honed edge.

The Battle of Robsart was one of the largest deep-space naval engagements in the history of mankind, and it was the turning point for the Taurian Navy. Despite inflicting nearly one-to-one losses on the Star League vessels, the Concordat lost one hundred and four ships of war in that five-day long contest--including its most experienced ship crews and officers. Robsart had bled the Taurian Navy white, and they never fully recovered from that battle. From that point onward, the Taurians could only engage in small numbers--Task Groups of four-to-eight ships--performing hit-and-run actions against the Star League and Davion forces. Though both the Davion Fleet and the Star League Navy took substantial damage prior to this, both of these Great Powers had an advantage the Taurians did not have: extensive ship-building and repair facilities.

The Taurian Navy pre-Reunfication War was primarily a defense formation. Because of that, a much higher percentage of each ship design was devoted to armor and weapons, rather than the cargo space that would allow their vessels to range hundreds of light-years from the Concordat border. But in building their Fleet, the Taurian made a mistake that many smaller naval powers have made throughout history--they neglected their support facilities. In 2560, the Taurians had just enough building slips, repair docks, and other support stations to provide the support their peace-time navy required. Excess capacity was not available. As tensions increased, and new designs were laid down, a serious lack of yard-space emerged.

The Admirality attempted to address the issue, and by 2575 had doubled the number of stations and facilities. But having to build these support facilities delayed--fatally for the Concordat Navy--the arrival of the new construction. As the war progessed, more and more facilities outside the Hyades Cluster were lost, exacterbating the problem. By the war's end, only three ship-yards remained operational--in geosynchronus orbit above Taurus, Samantha, and New Columbia, all deep in Flanagan's Nebula. The roots of the Taurian Navy's defeat lay not in its ships or training, but in the lack of sufficient supports--something the Inner Sphere had in spades.

While the Taurian Navy struggled to produce six or seven ships a year, the Star League was producing twenty or thirty, the Davion's another dozen or so. Attrition soon whittled the Taurian Navy down to the point where it could no longer take offensive action. The last five years of the War, not one Taurian ship of war even attempted to attack the invaders outside of the Nebula. There were simply too few ships, and those ships were needed to defend the approaches. By the time of the Surrender, the Taurian Navy was a broken force.

While we may never (canonically) know what forces comprised the TCN at the beginning of the War, I believe that we can make reasonable presumptions as to the force mix. Below is the best approximation I can make with the available resources. As will be noted--and as stated in canon--the Taurian Navy is primarily comprised of light combatents--corvettes and destroyers. Pre-war, Cruiser-class vessels comprised less than 9% of the Fleet, and frigates just 18%.

In 2560, the TCN contained two major Fleet commands--the Active Fleet and the Inactive Reserve. As of that year, 151 WarShips were assigned to the Active Fleet and 70 to the Reserve. As a side note, auxiallary vessels--such as transports, replenishment vessels, tankers, repair ships, etc., etc.--while built on compact core designs were not considered WarShips by the Taurian Navy, and were armed with weapons for self-defense only, typically class 35 Naval Lasers and the ubiquitious Taurian 'flak-belt'.

The Active Fleet consisted of 151 WarShips--12 x Winchester class Cruisers, 8 x Dart class Cruisers, 16 x Endeavor class Frigates, 24 x Constellation class Frigates, 35 x Formidable class Destroyers, 12 x Avalanche class Destroyers, and 44 x Pegasus class Corvettes. This was a Fleet designed to defend--not to attack--and that was readily apparent in the mix of forces. Ships capable of carrying offensive action against hardened targets--Cruisers and Battleships--were either in short supply or non-existent, at this time.

The Reserve Fleet consisted of 70 older ships retired from active duty decades before--40 x Resolution class Destroyers and 32 x Wildcat class Corvettes. Recognizing the need for numbers, as well as tonnage, the TCN ordered all 70 ships of the Reserve reactivated in the fall of 2560. This stretched the available support facilities to the limit--and contributed to the decision of the Admiriality to increase the number of facilities available. However, the last ship of the Reserve did not reenter the Fleet until 2574--a year after the Malagrotta Incident.

It has been stated before, but this fact is important in understanding the cause of the defeat of the Taurian--there weren't enough slips for all the ships they needed. The construction programs begun in 2560 took every available building slip, and for the first year of the war, every dry-dock contained ships of the Reserve being remobilized. As damaged vessels returned from combat, work on the new construction was delayed time and again. The Taurian Concordat quite simply had too many ship programs underway at the same time for the facilities dedicated to ship construction and repair.

That is not to say the Taurian Navy did not successfully launch new designs; indeed they certainly did. Between 2560 and the Surrender in 2597, the Concordat began construction of 134 new hulls, plus 16 Pinto class Corvettes purchased from the Rim Worlds Republic that had to be refit to enter Taurian service. Of the new construction, 109 had been completed by the Surrender in 2597. 41 incomplete hulls in various stages of construction were either seized by the Star League Navy or scuttled by the yard commanders.

These new ships--the Samantha Calderon class Battleship, the Broadsword class Cruiser, the Hector class Frigate, the Thunderer class Destroyer, and the Boxer class Corvette--were vital to the Taurian war effort once they began arriving. But there were never enough, and attrition destroyed these vessels faster than they could be built. The actual numbers are as follows: 16 x Calderon class laid down, 10 were completed; 20 x Broadsword class laid down, 12 completed; 32 x Hector class laid down, 21 completed; 34 x Thunderer class laid down, 24 completed; and 32 x Boxer class laid down, 26 completed. In addition to these ships, all 16 Pinto class were refitted before the start of the War.

Had the War not begun until 2600--as the government of Taurus originally hoped--a far stronger Taurian Navy would have been waiting for it. That was not to be however, and because of the mistakes made long before the War in the practices of the Taurian Navy, 2597 marked the last year the Concordat would ever possess a true Fleet.

Following the Amaris Coup and the Exodus, if the Taurian Concordat attempts to begin rebuilding its Navy, what the consequences be?

First, they would have to rebuilt shipyards dismantled almost 200 years ago by the Star League. This would probably take at least a decade. They would have to train personnel, and decide upon plans for ships. The latter would most likely be accomplished by using the latest Reunification War era designs (Boxer, Thunderer, Hector, Broadsword, and Calderon). However, it is quite possible that the new shipyards--and certainly the workers--would need to start with smaller designs first. So they would be limited to Boxer and Thunderer class ships--if Improved Ferro-Aluminum armor is even available. Otherwise, it would be the older Pegasus and Formidable class vessels. I doubt if the new shipyards could complete more than 1 or 2 ships a year, and with the failing economic situation, along with the abused and irreplaceable water purification systems and fusion power generators, even that would be close to a miracle.

For all intents and purposes, in 2800, the Taurians are a power without a Navy, and likely to remain so for the next half-century or more.

Arminas tar Valantil
Grand Master of the Ebon Rose

And here are some links . . .

Warlock class Corvette

Wildcat class Corvette

Pegasus class Corvette

Resolution class Destroyer

Samantha Calderon class Battleship

Banshee Light ASF

Skyhawk Medium ASF

Havoc Heavy ASF

Defiance Gunboat

Mirage Assault DropShip

Legionnaire Troop Carrier DropShip

There are others out there, but they are not updated.  Hope that helps.

MA
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Hairbear541

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Re: new designs to me
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 09:35:34 AM »

good morning to all... master arminas , irose , takiro ,dragon cat and stormcrow .
yesterday several of you asked which of the designs i liked best and to be honest i like them all . as i said in a previous post i want the most well rounded and balanced fleets forces i can come up with . so just call me a glutton , with your blessings i would like to use all your designs . this will make it easier to implement an idea of mine (a what if) of forming a grand periphery alliance between the tc , mc & oa to resist the new terran overlord government and it's pack of rabid dog attendant polities . like the early American patriot speaking to a group of fellow revolutionaries...we must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately . so you get the gist of what i'm talking about . fight united with a greater chance of dragging the war out so long , that the enemy starts fighting among themselves once again . ie kill the beast from within , with it's own cancerous hated of one another .
now  one of you said  there was a mothballed secret naval base / with major building and repair yards hidden in the hyades nebular debris fields , while another says the same thing for the badlands cluster... now just suppose due intelligence compartmentalization , your both right . i know from experience just how paranoid the security apperati of the military can be , and the extreme measures they will go to , to keep things hidden . and yes i can see both having mothballed  ws ,js & ds that haven't been seen in hundreds of years just waiting  to be re-activated
in the days to come i will be asking for stats of vessels you have just given the names of ,but no stats for . so please don't hate me . there is a grand design here that has waited over 20 years to be given birth to .
thank you all for your patience and forbearance .
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