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Author Topic: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)  (Read 18301 times)

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Red Pins

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2016, 08:18:41 PM »

That is what I am asking for Red Pins. Anyone who wants can enter. Refit the Zorya is the challenge. Good luck!

Ah.  Ok, working.  Should have something by tomorrow.
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2016, 08:33:50 PM »

Looking forward. I hope others will join in on this refit the Zorya effort.
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Red Pins

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 01:06:41 AM »

Ok.  First, the Caveats; I don't have HMPro installed on the new box.  Its out of date, and I use lots of paper and pen.  Tonnage and space works on paper, but please, check my figures.  I also cribbed your stat blocks for the Zorya, since it was easier to replace numbers than trying to just describe it.  I'm not going to go crazy with fluff, either, since I have only a couple hours and its my wedding anniversary weekend.  My wife has strong feelings about my hobby without intruding upon "HER" time and day.  (And time of month.  PMS galore.  Its been hell, today.  I'm hoping for a better tomorrow.   >:(  )  Besides, I know well that sometimes it doesn't fit what you have in mind for a project's fluff, so if you want a more polished unit and fluff, its got to wait.

I worked from a single concept, similar to my AU version but quite a bit smaller; small scale assaults and holding actions.  This isn't a scout (despite the increased tractor speed), or an artillery vehicle (although it could be argued), or a MBT.  This is a caltrop; a single Point has the armor of a hardboiled egg with the damage output of a sledgehammer.  Larger groups become dangerous quickly, but if the trailer is compromised, if it can't run, its going to be run over like a gopher on the freeway.

I left it as tracked because that's the original stats, but it works better as a slightly slower wheeled vehicle.  I chose the 280-ER because so many units can use it, and it became an XL because it was slightly overweight without it.


Type: Zorya Light Tank
Technology Base: Clan Vehicle
Movement Type: Tracked
Tonnage: 35 tons

Equipment                           Mass
Internal Structure:                         3.5
Engine:            280               12.0
   Type:         XL Fusion
   Cruising MP:         8
   Flank MP:         12
Heat Sinks:            10               0
Control Equipment:                        2
Lift Equipment:                        0
Turret:                            0.5
Armor Factor:            72               4.5

               Armor Value   
   Front             21
   Right/Left Side         14/14
   Rear             7
   Turret            14

Weapons and Ammo:      Location         Tonnage
2 ER-ML                            Turret            2.0
4 MG                                 Turret            2.0
MG Array                           Turret            0.25
Ammo (MG) 200         Body                    1.0
BA Compartment               Body                                 5.0
Bulldozer blade                  Front                                2.0
Trailer Hitch                      Rear                                 0.0



And the stats for the trailer; this one isn't in a stat block, just a vehicle construction step guide.  Because its a trailer, the number and possible types are endless.  The biggest concern is the number of spaces.

1. 35 Tons, Clan tech, Tracked, 12 Spaces, and IS -3.5 Tons
2. Nothing
3. Nothing
4. Armor - 4.5 tons standard Armor, 18 points/facing or F-28, L/R-18, R-8

Weapons - 4 LRM-20 (Front), 7 Ammo (LRM) 42, Trailer Hitch

Mass (3.5+4.5+20+7) = 35 tons
Space (4+7+Trailer Hitch) = 12

I'll be interested in comments and what happens next.  Here's hoping my wife wakes up on the better side of bed.   ::)
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drakensis

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 04:06:12 AM »

The Zorya seems to be something of the Clan equivalent to the Scorpion - something with low performance but cheap enough it can be deployed in large numbers. One Zorya isn't anything to worry about but a binary of 20 comes to an intimidating amount of long-range firepower for the cost of one or two frontline 'Mechs. Also they have plenty of endurance, useful for long patrols, but depend on ammunition supply in the long run, limiting the issues if some vehicle crews were to go rogue.

As a result I went with a cheap and simple upgrade: replace the engine with a more powerful fusion reactor and the LRMs with a more weight-efficient launcher layout.



Zorya Light Tank

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-C-A
Production Year: 3052
Cost: 1,442,250 C-Bills
Battle Value: 703

Power Plant:  175 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 54.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  LB 5-X AC
    3  LRM-5s
    1  ECM Suite
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

Capabilities:
The Jade Falcon version of the Zorya upgrade used fusion reactors salvaged from
the Hunter light support tank, a Lyran design they had salvaged in large
numbers. Searching for additional sources, Capellan-built Firebees were found
in Brian Caches, using the same reactor.

More powerful ton for ton, the new reactor gave the Zorya enough speed to keep
up with most Clan heavy 'Mechs. The aged LRM launcher was replaced with three
smaller launchers, giving a slight boost in firepower and the ability to
engaged multiple targets. To support this, the ammunition bins were doubled in
size.

Original Cost = 1,292,175 (89.6% of the cost of the upgrade)
Upgrade Cost: = 1,442,250 (only 11.3% more to upgrade)


Code: [Select]
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                3.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                175                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  5
    Flank MP:   8
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV -  57                  3.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     16       
                                          Left/Right    9/9         
                                              Turret     14       
                                                Rear     9         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB 5-X AC                                    T         1         1         7.00
3 LRM-5s                                     T         6         3         3.00
ECM Suite                                    BD        0         1         1.00
@LB 5-X (Slug) (20)                          BD        -         0         1.00
@LB 5-X (Cluster) (20)                       BD        -         0         1.00
@LRM-5 (48)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 7
5t         2       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: ECM, CASE, TUR(2/2/2), IF 1
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2016, 07:34:58 AM »

Very interesting Red Pins, while the 280XL Engine is readily available for such an experiment I have a general rule against them using Extra Light Power Plants on Conventional Vehicles. I suppose you need the large light weight reactor to provide the adequate speed for the tractor-trailer combo. Do you have any idea of the costs?

Don't forget the Svantovit IFV drakensis for plentiful in production sources for the 175 Fusion Engine. I liked the greater speed. Surprised you did not swap out the LB-5X for a Large Pulse Laser.
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Red Pins

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2016, 10:59:46 AM »

Very interesting Red Pins, while the 280XL Engine is readily available for such an experiment I have a general rule against them using Extra Light Power Plants on Conventional Vehicles. I suppose you need the large light weight reactor to provide the adequate speed for the tractor-trailer combo. Do you have any idea of the costs?

No, I normally leave that to HMPro, but since it isn't on the new box, I don't have time to do so.  And yes, large engine size is the drawback to the tractor/trailer combo.
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2016, 02:03:00 PM »

Yeah say what you will of Heavy Metal, it does make all things design easy.

Perhaps in the future I will have an OmniVehicle design contest for a tractor-trailer combo for the Clans.

Still I will give your design serious consideration.
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Red Pins

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2016, 02:56:59 PM »

Yeah say what you will of Heavy Metal, it does make all things design easy.

Perhaps in the future I will have an OmniVehicle design contest for a tractor-trailer combo for the Clans.

Still I will give your design serious consideration.

Absolutely.  For over a decade, if it was HMPro legal with a sheet, it was welcome at the table.  Still - there is a need for a new one with the new tech and stuff.
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2016, 06:27:46 PM »

Agreed my friend, agreed.

Any other submissions??
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drakensis

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2016, 03:28:18 AM »

Don't forget the Svantovit IFV drakensis for plentiful in production sources for the 175 Fusion Engine.
I'd missed that. Well, it's even more convenient then.

I liked the greater speed. Surprised you did not swap out the LB-5X for a Large Pulse Laser.
While that would technically be cheaper and more effective for new construction, it seemed like a more resource-intensive conversion for existing Zoryas. It also means no cluster ammunition - and for secondline units which are likely to be engaging tanks, helicopters or maybe finishing off damaged 'Mechs, LB-X guns with cluster ammunition are more useful - even if they loose out on raw damage.
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2016, 06:26:28 AM »

Its a simple and effective upgrade drak, nice job!
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2016, 02:06:20 PM »

Well after thinking long and hard about this one I think drakensis has again put forward a winner. I want to thank Red Pins for outlining trailers and his alternate design. Unfortunately that one and my original Zorya proposal are a bit too much especially in comparison to the straight forward drak modification which feels a lot like the Sentinel IIC he put forth. This really bought it down to my second proposal versus drak's submission. Both use fusion engines found on other Clan vehicles (the 140 on the Odin and the 175 on the Svantovit) and shrink the turret to 1 ton (10 ton weapon capacity). While mine offers more firepower and better armor, his was faster and cheaper. Speed compared favorably to the 'Huey' upgrade which I originally posted above and cost well that was paramount to me cause lets face it the Clans do not love conventional vehicles. This mod does not stray far from the original in what you have to put in and the upgrade is significant. With everything on hand (like the Hunter Tank salvage angle and the Goliath Scorpions will be introducing the Minotaur for second line forces thanks to Quicksilver using the 175) it would be a smart move to endorse such a move in spite of prejudice. I could see Fire Mandrill, Jade Falcon and Goliath Scorpion being the first to undertake the refit with others following quickly. Nice job and thanks again everyone for your input!
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drakensis

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2016, 04:19:10 AM »

Neat! And you're welcome
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Red Pins

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2016, 10:11:02 AM »

Frankly, I would have voted for Drak's design too - the trailer idea wasn't really suited to the idea of a refit.  New production, maybe.
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Takiro

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Re: Clan Conventional Vehicle Upgrades (The End of ICE)
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2016, 02:23:00 PM »

Your right Red Pins, thank you for putting forward your design. It presents interesting possibilities for the future. :)
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