Topic: Filling the Gaps (Clan OmniMechs) (Read 37238 times)

Takiro · « **on:** May 26, 2014, 05:12:55 PM »

Alright Blacknova and Master Arminas have gotten me going on the Clans for Clarion Call which is different from their stuff but the similarities get my attention. One of the things I was going to have the Clans do as a unified group at the direction of Ulric was a Program (name needed) to fill out their OmniMech chassis. Justification will come from the failure of Operation Revival in part do to poor logistics. This program will give the Clans the widest possible selection of war machines with which to complete the task. Hopefully it will optimize Clan battle capabilities and maximize their technological edge over the InnerSphere. The time period of course is 3052 just after the Truce of Tukayyid as in the story.

The three types of OmniMech for each chassis (20 through 100 tons) will larger be determined by engine as you will see.

Type 1. Zombie. Arguable the most familiar to everyone these machines will feature a standard fusion engine while maintaining reasonable speed. Advantages include a lower price tag and higher endurance. These Mechs take a licking and keep on ticking. An example would be a 100 ton Omni with a 300 engine with a decent amount pod space. The Blood Kite at 90 tons would be a good canon example.

Type 2. Speedster. The fastest OmniMech chassis are expensive but their maximum speed profile gives them a big advantage which many warriors prefer. While more vulnerable than their slower brethren these Mechs still carry reasonable amounts of pod space with better heat dissipation rates thanks to their massive engines which can carry more integral heat sinks. The terrifying Executioner (Gladiator) is an excellent canon example.

Type 3. Assailant. When offense is favored above all these apex predators with their massive amounts of pod space are the clear choice. Their extra light engines maintain reasonable speed while their huge arsenal decimates opponents. While they maybe vulnerable few foolish enough to challenge them will survive their assaults. The Dire Wolf (Daishi) with over half its mass devoted to pod space is a good example of this type.

So Iâ€™d like to get your input before I start putting together design challenges for the 21 spots that need filling. Thoughts?

Blacknova · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2014, 06:35:20 PM »

Your other option is just to bring forward the development of the Omni's that came out in later TRO's. It's what I am doing, smacks of laziness, but get the job done with art.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #2 on:** May 26, 2014, 08:56:04 PM »

An entry into the Speedie category - taking inspiration from Clan Wolf (in-Exile)'s Pack Hunter - I wish I'd fixed the flamer

Code: [Select]

Speedie 

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 5,994,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 519

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 210 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h (151.2 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    8.5 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    51 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 7 LA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             210                       4.50
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11 (14)
    Jumping MP: 7 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   3.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV -  96                  5.00
    Armor Locations: 7 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     10           15        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  2         
                                           L/R Torso     7            12        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  2         
                                             L/R Arm     5            9         
                                             L/R Leg     7            12        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 21

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 5
9/7j       0       0       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name:                                                Cost: 6,526,488
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,656

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(24)                    2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
ER PPC                                       RT        15        2         6.00
Flamer                                       RA        3         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 17
9/7j       2       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 6,526,488
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,656

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(24)                    2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
ER PPC                                       RT        15        2         6.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 17
9/7j       2       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: A                                              Cost: 6,669,488
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,876

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
ER Large Laser                               RT        12        1         4.00
ER Large Laser                               LT        12        1         4.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 14

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 19
9/7j       2       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: B                                              Cost: 6,409,488
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 848

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
Ultra AC/2                                   RT        1         2         5.00
2 AP Gauss Rifles                            RT        2         2         1.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
@Ultra AC/2 (45)                             LT        -         1         1.00
@AP Gauss Rifle (40)                         LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 8
9/7j       2       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: C                                              Cost: 6,596,363
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,275

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
SRM-6                                        LT        4         1         1.50
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
@LRM-15 (16)                                 RT        -         2         2.00
@SRM-6 (15)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 13
9/7j       2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1


================================================================================
Loadout Name: D                                              Cost: 6,620,738
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,644

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
Heavy Large Laser                            RT        18        3         4.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        RT        8         2         4.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 11

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 16
9/7j       3       2       0       0      1     1   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: E                                              Cost: 6,466,363
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 1,229

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 7  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   0.00
    CASE Locations: RT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC                                         CT        -         1         1.00
ATM-9                                        RT        6         4         5.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         0.50
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (14)                             RT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 9

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 12
9/7j       3       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Takiro · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2014, 09:57:13 PM »

Way ahead of you Blacknova as this is 3052 and certain Mechs like the Nova Cat, Blood Asp, Crimson Langur, and Savage Coyote are yet to be fielded. However since they fill a specific unfilled niche their development will be sped up as part of the program.

Also it should be noted that there are certain design conflicts which have to be sorted out. Designs that fill the same niche under this program. Like the 65 ton bracket which is completely full especially when it comes to the Assailants (Priority Pod Space). The venerable Hellbringer (Loki) will be going up against the new Ebon Jaguar (Cauldron-Born). Both are 65 tons with 325XL (5/8) while the Loki has 28.5 tons to the Jaguar's 30 tons. Series of combat trails will determine the continued production but I'm not sure who that will be yet. Love to get your input!

Same thing for 50 ton Assailant between the Huntsman (Nobori-Nin) 50 tons, 250XL (5/8/5), 23.5 tons pod space and the Nova (Black Hawk) 50 tons, 250XL (5/8/5), 16 tons pod space.

At 45 tons you have 3 existing competitors for 2 spots. Ice Ferret (Fenris), 360XL (8/12), 9.5 tons pod space or Mongrel (Grendel), 315 XL (7/11/7), 13.5 tons pod space or Shadow Cat, 270XL (6/9/6), 17 tons pod space. One is your Speedster and another is your Assailant. While the other is replaced by a Zombie design not yet present.

40 tons is a log jam with 5 designs for 3 spots. The Battle Cobra is your clear Zombie at 40 tons with a 240 engine (6/9) and 14 tons pod space. This leaves the Coyotl [40 tons, 280XL (7/11), 15.5 tons] to face off against the Pouncer [40 tons, 240XL (6/9/5), 15.5 tons pod space] for the Assailant but I suppose the Pouncer since it is in production would win unless the the Coyotl was bought back. For 40 ton speedster the Phantom [40 tons, 360XL (9/14), 6.5 tons] squares off against the Viper (Dragonfly) [40 tons, 320XL, (8/12/8), 8.5 tons].

Please let me know who your winners are!

Save the entries for now Dragon Cat. We will go one at a time

masterarminas · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2014, 01:11:21 AM »

Hmmmmmm.

For myself, I believe that speed (combined with the range of Clan weapons) kills. Reasonable speed, that is. Throughout history, real-life tank designers have been torn between three competing objectives: a) speed, b) protection, and c) firepower.

With Clan OmniMechs is quite possible (for the first time in BattleTech) to obtain all three in a fast enough, protected enough design with enough firepower to deal with most threats.

Which means when I design a Clan OmniMech, I am looking for the fastest speed which allows for maximum (or near-maximum) armor protection and a good payload of weaponry and equipment. At least for front-line 'Mechs with Clan XL engines. Standard engines are so very much less expensive that you can generally afford two or three standard engine designs for an XL design of the same weight. Of course, the standard engine designs are slower, but can generally carry just as much armor and weapons as the faster XL designs.

That gives me two options . . . the highly expensive front-line OmniMech designed for the Clan's best Warriors and cheaper (but still hard-hitting!) slower second-line designs for the rest.

Showing here:

Obsidian Mantis (Second-line)

Code: [Select]

Obsidian Mantis (Garrison) 

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3060
Cost: 6,020,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 968

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    21.5 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 201                 10.50
    Armor Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           30        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10        
                                           L/R Torso     14           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20        
                                             L/R Leg     14           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 8,041,200
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,316

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: CT, RT, LA                                             0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4.00
Streak SRM-4                                 LA        3         1         2.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         2         2.00
3 ER Medium Lasers                           LT        15        3         3.00
2 AP Gauss Rifles                            CT        2         2         1.00
@Streak SRM-4 (25)                           LA        -         1         1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (24)                       RT        -         3         3.00
@AP Gauss Rifle (40)                         HD        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 16

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 23
5          4       4       2       0      3     3   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

versus

Desert Tiger (front-line)

Code: [Select]

Desert Tiger (60-ton) 

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3048
Cost: 15,740,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 927

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 360 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    23.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             360                      16.50
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 201                 10.50
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           30        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10        
                                           L/R Torso     14           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20        
                                             L/R Leg     14           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 17,961,200
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,476

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA                                             0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4.00
Streak SRM-4                                 LA        3         1         2.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         2         2.00
3 ER Medium Lasers                           LT        15        3         3.00
2 AP Gauss Rifles                            LT        2         2         1.00
Anti-Missile System                          LT        1         1         0.50
@Streak SRM-4 (25)                           LA        -         1         1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (24)                       RT        -         3         3.00
@AP Gauss Rifle (40)                         LT        -         1         1.00
@Anti-Missile System (24)                    LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 10

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 25
6          4       4       2       0      3     3   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: OMNI, AMS, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1

Both are 60-ton designs, although the Desert Tiger is faster (6/9/0 vs. 5/8/0) and has slightly more pod-space (23 tons vs. 21.5 tons). Both have the same amount of internal structure and armor (10.5 tons ferro-fibrous), although the Obsidian Mantis is slightly more survivable because it lacks that XL engine.

The largest difference is in the price. 8,041,200 C-Bills vs. 17,961,200 C-Bills. You can afford 2.23 Obsidian Mantis Primes for the price of a single Desert Tiger Prime. 223 OMPs for the same cost as 100 DTPs.

And the ONLY difference in payload between the two (and heat sinks, for that matter) is that the Obsidian Mantis lacks an AMS and its ammunition. Otherwise, both carry identical firepower with the same heat dissipation capacity.

I've just posted the Primes of each, but the pattern is clear. Do you pull out all the stops and spend twice the money on a single OmniMech, or do you make do with cheaper, slower OmniMechs that can you buy more of? Or some mix of the two?

Those are the questions we should be asking.

MA

fitzgerald · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2014, 05:40:19 AM »

So Claymore a 70 tonner Zombie Mech.

Code: [Select]

Claymore 

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 6,795,042 C-Bills
Battle Value: 946

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    32.5 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                280                      16.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 211                 11.00
    Armor Locations: 3 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           33        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  9         
                                           L/R Torso     15           22        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     11           22        
                                             L/R Leg     15           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 9,910,823
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-A                       BV2: 2,536

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 4  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         4.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             15(30)                    4.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LA, 2 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser                               HD        2         1         0.50
LRM-20                                       RT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4.00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        1         4.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (12)                       RT        -         2         2.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (12)                       LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 25
4j         5       5       5       0      3     1   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 3


================================================================================
Loadout Name: WHR-6R                                         Cost: 9,843,354
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-A                       BV2: 2,592

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             18(36)                    7.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: CT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ECM Suite                                    HD        0         1         1.00
Streak SRM-6                                 RT        4         2         3.00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1.00
ER Small Laser                               RT        2         1         0.50
Machine Gun                                  RT        0         1         0.25
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1.00
ER Small Laser                               LT        2         1         0.50
Machine Gun                                  LT        0         1         0.25
Active Probe                                 LT        0         1         1.00
Targeting Computer                           LT        -         3         3.00
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
@MG (200)                                    CT        -         1         1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           CT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 4

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 26
4          7       6       3       0      3     2   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: OMNI, ECM, PRB, RCN, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: MAD2R                                          Cost: 9,079,948
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-A                       BV2: 2,280

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             20(40)                    9.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: CT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser                               HD        2         1         0.50
Ultra AC/5                                   RT        1         3         7.00
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
@Ultra AC/5 (40)                             CT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 7

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 23
4          6       6       4       0      3     0   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

drakensis · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2014, 05:59:49 AM »

I'll hold off on posting any actual designs until I see if there are any more criteria for the 21 possibilities mentioned.

Is there going to be a generalized category trying to balance all three factors though?

While firepower/speed/armour are the trinity of battlefield how do you want to address cost issues?

Takiro · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2014, 08:53:33 AM »

Again thanks for the design fitz but lets hold off on design submission while we talk things out.

Good questions drak. The goal of this project is to produce a choice for each Clan and each Mechwarrior which will fulfill the potential of the OmniMech. If you want survivability, quantity, ease of manufacture, and low price tag per each unit your choice will be the Zombie. Some Clans like Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill might not have much of a choice and be forced into these machines by their poor resource situation. However, my research shows that the Steel Vipers did very well using these types of machines to fill out their touman. See the Battle Cobra and the Crossbow.

Some Clans like the Ice Hellion Clan will favor speed so much they will go with the expensive, quality, harder to manufacturer, but more vulnerable Speedster. Can they afford such a choice? The Wolf Clan under Natasha and Phelan have embraced this blitzkreig philosophy with designs like the Linebacker for example.

However there is also a third choice using your example of 60 tonners. The Mad Dog (Vulture) is the 60 ton Assailant with a 300XL (5/8) and 28 tons pod space (almost half your mass reserved for weapons) at a base cost of 13,032,000. Price falls in the mid range between your two examples shown but has that third major consideration firepower. The Smoke Jaguars, and to a lesser extent the Coyotes, are perhaps the best examples of this kill or be killed philosophy.

So to answer your questions there will be no generalized category to balance all three factors rather a warrior and his Clan will have every choice possible which is the true potential of the OmniMech. The objective is to give everyone a choice as well as a fall back position. Zombies can also be used as replacements for combat losses by Clans hurt by devastating losses. Hint hint Smoke Jaguars.

Cost issues will likely see the Zombie cost the least with the Speedster costing the most. Mid range cost will be the Assailants.

Abele · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2014, 11:39:42 AM »

Reposted elsewhere

Abele · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2014, 12:13:50 PM »

To be reposted, possibly, at a later date

masterarminas · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2014, 12:17:15 PM »

My point, Takiro, is that there really isn't three categories: there are two. High-end high-cost faster units (with XL engines), and low-end low-cost slower units (with standard engines).

Take your Mad Dog example. Let's do a Mad Dog Clone with no fixed DHS and max armor.

Code: [Select]

Mad Dog Clone Prime 

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 13,220,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 919

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    31.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 201                 10.50
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           30        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10        
                                           L/R Torso     14           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20        
                                             L/R Leg     14           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 13,220,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E                         BV2: 919

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31 tons of pod-space at a cost (base chassis) of 13,220,000 C-bills.

versus the Mighty Mouse . . .

Code: [Select]

Mighty Mouse 

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 5,540,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 884

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    29.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      11.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 201                 10.50
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           30        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  10        
                                           L/R Torso     14           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20        
                                             L/R Leg     14           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 5,540,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E                         BV2: 884

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

29 tons of pod space at a cost of 5,540,000 C-Bills.

The Mad Dog Clone (Prime) is faster, has two tons more pod space, but both have the exact same armor. But you can purchase 2.38 Mighty Mouse (Primes) for the cost of a single Mad Dog Clone (Prime).

Depends on what your goals are really.

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2014, 12:32:12 PM »

Again thank for design entries but hold your horses!!!

I get what you and drak are saying but take a look at your example. The Mad Dog clone is an assailant not a speedster in my definitions. Why cause that 60 ton Mad Dog isn't as fast as it could be. Yes the cost is high for said clone but put a 360 xl on there and two things will happen. Cost will increase and pod space will decrease. That's a Speedster.

Plus to make your point you reduced the 60 ton zombie to a 4/6. It should be a 5/8. Then you'll see pod space of a speedster.

Abele · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2014, 12:47:06 PM »

Silverback will be reposted whn the 85-ton categories come up

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2014, 02:38:25 PM »

Operation Marshall?

And what about the jack-of-all-trades?

masterarminas · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2014, 02:45:50 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on May 27, 2014, 12:32:12 PM

Again thank for design entries but hold your horses!!!

I get what you and drak are saying but take a look at your example. The Mad Dog clone is an assailant not a speedster in my definitions. Why cause that 60 ton Mad Dog isn't as fast as it could be. Yes the cost is high for said clone but put a 360 xl on there and two things will happen. Cost will increase and pod space will decrease. That's a Speedster.

Plus to make your point you reduced the 60 ton zombie to a 4/6. It should be a 5/8. Then you'll see pod space of a speedster.

Yeah, I did the same thing with the Desert Tiger/Obsidian Mantis, above. Why? Because any standard-engine 'Mech is GOING to be slower than an XL-engine 'Mech of the same tonnage and (approximate) pod-space.

Desert Tiger/Obsidian Mantis: 6/9/x vs. 5/8/x; full armor; 23 tons pod-space vs. 21.5 tons pod-space.

Mad Dog Clone/Mighty Mouse: 5/8/x vs. 4/6/x; full armor; 31 tons pod-space vs. 29 tons pod-space.

If you try to get the same speed on a standard engine, it is just too lop-sided in favor of the XL designs . . . Mad Dog Clone (XL engine, 5/8/x) vs. Obsidian Mantis (standard engine 5/8/x) are the same tonnage and same speed, with the same protection (OM has slightly greater survivability thanks to the SFE), but there is a full 9.5 tons difference in pod-space (31 tons vs. 21.5 tons).

MA

OBT Forum

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Author Topic: Filling the Gaps (Clan OmniMechs) (Read 37238 times)

Takiro

Filling the Gaps (Clan OmniMechs)

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