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Author Topic: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine  (Read 43056 times)

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Kwic

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Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« on: September 17, 2013, 03:09:07 PM »

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Starlight Broadcasting Council.

As of January, 3032 the Draconis Combine has violated the terms of the Arbitrated Peace Agreement signed and agreed to by all parties, by beginning Offensive Combat Operations upon the Principality of Rasalhague.

As such the Arbitration Committee invokes the Interdiction clause hereby voting to Interdict the Draconis Combine effective immediately.  Due to the severity and ruthlessness of the DCMS and DCA attacks with no regard for the civilian casualties the Interdictionis to last until Midnight Galactic Standard Time January 31, 3034.

Note that should the other members bound by this agreement begin offensive operations against another sovereign state prior to the ending of this Peace Agreement, we will also move to Interdict them as well. This does not include assisting sovereign states including the Principality of Rasalhague in the defense of their territory, worlds and people.

Formally the Votes cast for Interdiction by the terms of our agreement are as follows:

Draconis Combine votes to Interdict by proxy
Lyran Commonwealth votes to Interdict by proxy
Federated Suns  votes to Interdict by proxy
Oberon Confederation votes to Interdict by proxy
Outworlds Alliance votes to Interdict by proxy

We will now call upon the remaining council members to cast their votes.

Peace Arbitration Committee.
Outworlds Alliance
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panzerfaust150

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 04:36:39 PM »

The Lyran Commonwealth throws its unequivocal support behind the motion, and will cast it's vote to interdict in person at the earliest opportunity.
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 04:44:31 PM »

As the Principality of Rasalhague was not a signatory to the treaty, Starlight Broadcasting cannot accept the call for Interdiction based on said treaty.

Yours,

Danicia Holy
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Kwic

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 04:53:36 PM »

The agreement signed by the Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth and Oberon Confederation clearly states no offensive actions.

This is not dependant on signatory status of the invaded party just the obligation of the signatory members not to begin offensive actions until after the end of the cease fire term.


Thus the call for interdiction by the arbitration committee should hold.

Arbitration Committee

« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 04:56:03 PM by Kwic »
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 06:33:02 PM »

As previously stated, the Principality of Rasalhague was not a signatory to the treaty, Starlight Broadcasting cannot accept the call for Interdiction based on said treaty.

As the treaty stated that "All offensive operations to cease effective immediately." This was in relation to the 4th War, and additional ceasefire requirements over the five year period are only applicable to the signatories and between the signatories.

As such, Starlight Broadcasting rejects any demands for interdiction of the Draconis Combine under the treaty.

Yours,

Danicia Holy
Chief Administrator
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 07:35:05 PM »

The agreement signed by the Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth and Oberon Confederation clearly states no offensive actions.

This is not dependent on signatory status of the invaded party just the obligation of the signatory members not to begin offensive actions until after the end of the cease fire term.

Quite frankly, I find the foundation of this argument inherently flawed.

Essentially, what you're asking the voting committee to do is decide if the terms of the ceasefire extend beyond the signing participants to legally include a non-signing entity. Since the term "ceasefire" wasn't defined outside of non-combat between the signers, by default the legal ramifications of broaching the agreement only extends to those parties. By your rational then, any combat can be construed as a broach of the ceasefire by any non-signing entity and therefore subject to the same penalties. Cause is irrelevant and could extend to say the FedSuns in the event they are ever attacked...Responding with any force would result in an interdiction as a broach of the "ceasefire" because the FedSuns used force against a non-signing entity. I mean, did Rasalhague recognize the terms of your ceasefire as binding?

Either way, the ceasefire is already officially over. The peace-talks took place in January 3027. It's already well into 3032. The five years are over.
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Knightmare

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 07:43:22 PM »

That said, I like the fact that this brings to light the very "loose" nature of some of our agreements and the creativity of Oberon.

The Terran Hegemony finds the Combine's invasion of the free nation of Rasalhague deplorable, but does not find the Combine's actions as an abrogation of the original ceasefire in spirit or on firm legal grounds. Furthermore, for the record, let the Hegemony state that an interdiction is a punishment of last resort for a clear violation of terms. Had Oberon's argument been sound, we would have supported it as such. The Hegemony will not use an Interdiction like ComStar—to further personal ends—regardless of how many individuals decide otherwise.

In this matter, the Terran Hegemony sees no violation. The Terran Hegemony votes nay.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 07:50:19 PM by Knightmare »
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Coriendal

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 08:07:24 PM »

It is with regret, as the violations against civilians are egregious, that the CC must agree with the TH and Starlight's interpretation.  Although we would like to vote for some sort of punishment for the execution of prisoners and the high loss of civilian life we see no grounds based on the treaty as it is defined.

The Capellan Confederation votes NO.
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Kwic

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 08:28:05 PM »

Section agreed upon by all parties and signed

3)  The duration of the terms shall be determined by the Arbitration Committee after deliberation, however the initial timeframe will be a 5 year period of no military offensive actions mounted by the involved parties including raiding.  Antipiracy efforts against pirate organizations are not included at the sole determination of the Arbitration Committee.

Dates of the agreement extend to mid 3032 not January. Exact date forthcoming

The arbitration committee is supplied by the Outworlds Alliance not Oberon.
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Knightmare

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 09:06:08 PM »

Section agreed upon by all parties and signed

3)  The duration of the terms shall be determined by the Arbitration Committee after deliberation, however the initial timeframe will be a 5 year period of no military offensive actions mounted by the involved parties including raiding.  Antipiracy efforts against pirate organizations are not included at the sole determination of the Arbitration Committee.

Sadly, here's where the ambiguity of the agreement fails to live up to your claim of abrogating the ceasefire. It notes involved parties but does not clearly extend to non-involved parties.

As such, since the agreement's involved parties is clearly stated the umbrella of reasonable expectation as written would extend only to the involved parties. What you're asking "us," the non-signing parties, to do is two-fold. First, extend the arbitrated agreement—which we had no part of—to encompass all non-signing parties by creating a precedent that amends the clause to basically include, "...no military offensive actions mounted by the involved parties including raiding against arbitrating and non-arbitrating parties."

I'm sorry, but since non-signing, non-involved parties were excluded in both term and participation, the reasonable expectation of coverage does not extend beyond the signed. Nor will the Hegemony help correct an oversight made by the Arbitration Committee by creating another.
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 09:13:07 PM »

Although the Marian Hegemony has close ties with both the Lyrans Commonwealth and Oberon Confederation and plans to continue with these ties, the case made by the Terrans will see the Hegemony vote no.

Additionally, any other case made against the Combine for its use of force would not be supported either, as the Hegemony reserves the right to use any force necessary to protect its worlds and troops.  We are surrounded by large neighbors and cannot afford to voluntarily cripple ourselves.
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Kwic

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 10:19:55 PM »

Members of the Council,

Although the Oberon Confederation agrees with the intentions and spirit of the Outworlds Alliance's Arbitration Committee, we can not in good conscience be a party to it on these grounds.

The terms have indeed passed where the Arbitration Committee can control our votes by proxy or otherwise.  Had the Draconis Combine launched their "Offensive Operations" against the Principality of Rasalhague during that time we would have supported this action on this basis.

As a point of clarification, the terms of the Arbitration agreement that all participating members discussed and resolved to live by included the exclusion of all offensive operations to any party barring pirates during this period.  The interesting portion of the  line reads again "no military offensive actions".  There can be no argument that the recent actions of the DCMS against the Principality of Rasalhague are a military offensive action. 

Although we thank the Terran Representative for their compliments on our Creativity, perhaps they should direct their comment elsewhere, and should the Terran Government have issue with the Oberon Government or any agreement between those two parties, perhaps they should have direct discussions and leave comments such as the recent one to more proper venues.

To be clear the Oberon Confederation will support the people of Rasalhague in any and all ways possible, including using our votes on this council to interdict the Draconis Combine should the representatives of the Principality of Rasalhague call for such.

Samuel Rosen
Oberon Confederation Representative to Starlight Broadcasting.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 10:23:11 PM by Kwic »
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drakensis

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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 01:45:14 AM »

As the Principality of Rasalhague was not a signatory to the treaty, Starlight Broadcasting cannot accept the call for Interdiction based on said treaty.

Yours,

Danicia Holy
Chief Administrator
Chief Administrator

For clarification, does this mean that if a majority vote supports interdiction that Starlight Broadcasting will reject that decision?

Hanse Davion
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 02:18:46 AM »

Administrator Holly,

Under the treaty no, due to the reasons specified. A seperate call for other matters would need at least 16 delegates of 23 and 3500 of 5000 votes. Two thirds majority of both in other words. A difficult prospect even in ideal circumstances.
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Re: Interdiction of the Draconis Combine
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 07:34:34 AM »

[OOC — Sorry Kwic, I wrote Oberon when I should have written Alliance. I forgot you ran both and was typing while looking at your title. My bad]

Although we thank the Terran Representative for their compliments on our Creativity, perhaps they should direct their comment elsewhere, and should the Terran Government have issue with the Oberon Government or any agreement between those two parties, perhaps they should have direct discussions and leave comments such as the recent one to more proper venues.

The Terran Hegemony apologies to the people of the Oberon Confederation for our offensive and—ultimately—baseless accusations. However, we do believe this is exactly the correct time and forum to discuss all aspects of a proposed interdiction, including its foundation for cause.

I don't need to remind this Board that less than a decade ago we would have neither the power nor the opportunity to discuss such a drastic action, let alone exercise one against a member of this Board. While we—the Terran people—have no stake or claim in the Combine's recent invasion, the Hegemony does have stake in preventing the same misuse of the HPG network by a Board of Directors as it would have, had our nation lived under the threat of ComStar. In this, the Terran Hegemony is more than apprehensive to vote in the affirmative for any interdiction, and will scrutinize a proposal for one to our fullest capacity.

Hence, since the Arbitration Committee—the Outworlds Alliance—did not issue clear treaty evidence that the Draconis Combine had violated its terms—perhaps in spirit, but not in action or intent—the contra proferentem, or the ambiguous terms in the treaty shall be interpreted against the interests of the party that insisted upon the term's use in their rational for interdiction.

The Terran Hegemony respects and applauds the Alliance's proposal to end the fighting between the Combine and Rasalhague, but believes their rational for interdiction to be—at this time—unjustifiable.


[OOC — Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to an interdiction because it messes with Black's timeline. Quite the contrary, as I enjoy messing with the GM, but I do believe in-character that an interdiction based on the assumption that casus belli against non-signing treaty members is covered by the terms of the treaty to be—in point of fact—a legal assumption, and therefore beyond a rational expectation under the treaty's terms given its scope and participants. There's also the precedent-setting this type of action would create for the Inner Sphere, making it more likely that interdiction would used solely for political ends as opposed to more altruistic reasons. To be blunt, the weak argument being relied upon to suggest an interdiction smells exactly like something ComStar would exercise. Therefore, we want nothing to do with it.]     
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