OBT Forum

IC:
 Since Starlight Broadcasting has shown a reluctance to do the right thing here. I then propose the following. A trade embargo of the Combine, this would not apply to the Southern Court. Length of the embargo can be negotiated, but I think a two year embargo would work, don't you all?

  Katrina Steiner

Perhaps the LIC have screwed up and interpreted this as a possible opening to the Second Kapteyn war, and since the Lyrans have three possible frontiers waiting for developments might be sensible while the CC and FS are somewhat freer to act. It is not that long ago since the Skye revolt and the exiled rangers are still lurking. The LCAF might subsidize a few mercenary contracts as well as "volunteers and logistics support to the Oberons while preparing to back them up if the Dragon continues to advance.

Considering the Skye revolt, the generally cordial relations between Terra and Luthien (on the surface at least) and the delivery of an entire navy to the FLW just before the balloon goes up it is not an unreasonable assumption. In a second Kapteyn war the isolated LC would be a logical target prompting some caution.

Although I do tend to agree, the destruction of Rasalhague is a bit to big an event for the Lyrans to sit out even with a bit of proxy warfare through the Oberons.

OOC- KM, Mel might do that, but Katrina won't on sheer principle. As for the WWI comparison, well, name a war in Battletech that wasn't? The trouble is twofold for the Commonwealth to support Omi's Southern Court. One, and I am sure the TH would love this, it would give political ammunition to Skye, even if the cause of Skye has been set back for at least 2-3 decades, and second, conspiring with traitors to the Dragon? Well, now isn't that going to offend the Dragon's honor as well?

As for the Combine's honor, the allies have seen how much that is worth, and really don't trust it at all. (April agreement?) Perhaps the Hegemony might improve relations with the LC, but you really see the Commonwealth and DC improving relations without settling matters on the battlefield at some point? Even Mel, who's going to be a far more mellow leader than Katrina, knows she has to settle matters with this new Combine leader at some point, or he's going to use the "blowing off steam" excuse to pull all kinds of crap.

[OOC —

The trouble is twofold for the Commonwealth to support Omi's Southern Court. One, and I am sure the TH would love this, it would give political ammunition to Skye, even if the cause of Skye has been set back for at least 2-3 decades, and second, conspiring with traitors to the Dragon? Well, now isn't that going to offend the Dragon's honor as well?

Personally, I don't see the Hegemony making much of a fuss over the LC or anyone supporting Omi. It is a case of apples and oranges—quite honestly—in comparison to Skye, and one the Hegemony probably supports. Keep in mind that each nation is its own distinct entity and approached differently. So Terra selling arms to Skye separatists and supporting Omi might create domestic problems for said nation, but achieve very different ends in very different years. The same could be said if the Commonwealth did the same...the "enemy of my enemy"....etc. Either way, it's the Commonwealth responding to specific players and a specific set of unique circumstances. 

That said, it's important to keep in mind that the Combine is very much split down the middle ideologically when it comes to the change in leadership and the reform roll back. While the bulk of the DCMS is supporting Isokuru—for a variety of reasons not limited to personal loyalty—there is a large portion of the Combine that supports Omi.

At this moment, there is a civil war being fought for the hearts and minds of the Combine's people. Supporting Omi can only help her side "win." Drawing the Combine into a major fight so the opposition can rally around fighting the gaijin only weakens Omi's position by giving the Combine an external enemy to focus on AFTER exhausting what they can get out of Rasalhague.

Remember, Omi's only a traitor if she loses the war for the Combine's soul.

At this point, it's far more dangerous in the long term to keep a guy like Isokuru on the throne—who's really Takashi 2.0—than investing in Omi and receiving the dividends for doing so.

Having the Combine focus in and on itself is far better than having the Combine focus its attentions elsewhere. A domestically troubled Combine is a weak Combine.   

As for the Combine's honor, the allies have seen how much that is worth, and really don't trust it at all. (April agreement?) Perhaps the Hegemony might improve relations with the LC, but you really see the Commonwealth and DC improving relations without settling matters on the battlefield at some point? Even Mel, who's going to be a far more mellow leader than Katrina, knows she has to settle matters with this new Combine leader at some point, or he's going to use the "blowing off steam" excuse to pull all kinds of crap.

There's a huge difference when it comes to honoring gaijin and the honor the Combine people bestow and exercise among themselves. At the end of the day does it really matter if Commonwealth-Combine relations or FedSuns-Combine, or even Hegemony-Combine relations improve if the Dragon is too busy fighting itself to fight you? Not really.

Don't want to deal with Isokuru AND the DCMS? Support Omi's rebellion. At the very least, she's a useful proxy to keep Isokuru occupied by allowing him and his supporters to "blow off steam" internally rather than against the LCAF, AFFS or HAF.

IMHO, that's a much better play than going to war with the Dragon at this stage. This is a crucial moment in Combine history, if the Black Dragons manage to burn themselves out in the Combine and Omi regains control of the country, her ascendance offers the unique opportunity to affect real change in Draconis Combine culture and interstellar relations for decades to come. She might be a kid now, but she won't be forever...]   

IC:
 After consultation with our allies, and other associated powers. The Lyran Commonwealth puts forward an interdiction motion against the Combine on the basis of their indiscriminate use of warship bombardment against civilian targets, killing hundreds of thousands. These are clearly acts that are against the accepted laws of war in every realm in the Inner Sphere. They have gone so far as to leave the capitol city of Rasalhague a broken, unpopulated ruin, and have left millions injured and homeless.

 This action must not go unpunished, lords and ladies of the Inner Sphere, for it would set a bad precedent, one that would allow indiscriminate use of any and all weapons available against planetary targets without regards to civil populations. This was nothing more than a massacre, plain and simple, and any claim this is simply political belies the simple truth, the Draconis Combine slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people it claims are it's own citizens. As a nation that has recently dealt with it's own rebellion, I would proffer that this is no way to expect that this war will end with a Rasalhague willing to rejoin the Combine, but instead, one willing to kill Combine soldiers any way it can.

 There should be an interdiction on the basis of common accepted Interstellar Law. We should vote for on the basis of morality, as I expect noone here would condone the deliberate murder of hundreds of thousands of innocents. Even the TH has attempted to make amends for the "Skye incident," I see no such actions on the part of the Combine. None whatsoever.

<clap, clap> What a lovely straw man argument. I am referring to the precedent set by the Capellan Confederation in the wake of the Alcyone bombardment that has generally been agreed to by all warship owning states, unless of course, the Hegemony has no intention of agreeing to such a precedent?

And as for statutes of limitations, I would propose the doers of such actions you have discussed are long since dead, but since you want it, you got it. Let's bring the Ares Conventions back. The Commonwealth is more than willing to live by such an agreement, and if the Terran Hegemony has appointed itself the enforcement body, as it obviously has...then we see no issues. Congratulations, you just appointed yourself policeman of the Inner Sphere! <opens arms wide> I am sure we will all sleep well in our beds tonight knowing Officer Hamilton is on the beat! We'd just better pray he's in a good mood...he is a little light on the trigger, you know.

Gee, the Terrans agree with us? This might actually be a red letter day. By the way. We don't say "dastardly Terrans." We just call you what you are. Bullies.

And nope, we are in no way reluctant to reopen the discussions about the Ares Conventions. You opened the door, pal, let's see if you can handle the responsibility. Somehow, I doubt it. But hey, you might surprise us. I admit you willingness to open talks with us was "reassuring." But the greatest navy in the Inner Sphere willing to put shackles on it's own behavior after some of what it has done in recent times? Hmm, I find that a positive development. Let's see if your actions match the words, Terran. By the way...we have nothing to lose from such an agreement, it would be nice to have a treaty that restrains Terran Warships from their "surgical strikes" that they up until recently, had a predilection for.