OBT Forum

Clan Involvement
The Grand Council has authorized the creation of 7 new Modular Combat Vehicles. This was based on individual Clans petitioning for direct involvement in manufacturing these OmniVehicles. This includes Hell’s Horses (2), Blood Spirit (1), Star Adder (1), Ice Hellion (1), Wolf (1), and Diamond Shark (1).

Do not forget about the rest of the Clans. Two Fire Mandrill Kindraa (Payne and Kline) both would like to gain access to this production and will participate in development. The other Kindraa will likely remain apathetic to the whole project.

Coyote even though their warriors will not use the OmniVehicles as of yet the leadership and scientists of the Clan are interested in their development. They will assist in research introducing ideas like Cross Modularity which calls for Omni designs [Mech, Fighter, & Vehicle] at a certain weight class using common parts (Engines, Weapons, etc.). The idea was forwarded by Abele forwarded with Project Manitou although drakensis may have stumbled across a 50 ton duplication which exists already (Huntsman and Turk).

While Steel Viper and Ghost Bear forwarded a compromise proposal (the IIC Vehicle Program) it was largely ignored. They along with Cloud Cobra, Goliath Scorpion, Nova Cat, and Snow Raven have little interest in the OmniVehicle project. I could see an observer or some kind of peripheral involvement at best but apathy is the rule of the day here.

Burrock, Jade Falcon, Smoke Jaguar they all hate this whole concept and will go out of their way to wreck it if possible

Design Thoughts
Would the Clans go back to SLDF designs to draw inspiration? How about using the InnerSphere as an example? Certainly constructing an OmniVehicle is easy but the Clans don’t really do it that much.

Clans normally do not use Targeting Computers (see Athena), Modularization (see Epona), or Extra Light Engines (almost all Clan vehicles are in fact Fusion powered) on their vehicles.

How about using a 300 XL Engine as a constant throughout these designs? My first instinct is to go with standard Fusion Engines for all but one (Clan Main Battle Tank). Of course I like this idea but it may prove too radical for some Clans like Blood Spirit.

12 ton Clan weapons that can be easily swapped and serve as powerful main guns for any tank (Gauss Rifle, Ultra Autocannon/20, LB-X 20, and Arrow IV System)

10 ton Clan weapons could prove to be even more ideal than larger gun thanks to turret design rules, longer ranges, and increased ammo loads (LB 10-X AC, Ultra AC/10)

The heat curve and use of Fusion Power Plants it is also possible to mount a large energy weapon (Large Pulse Laser or ER Large Laser with 2 heat sinks) on almost every design

Since we only have 7 OmniVehicle designs why not try to fill out missing tonnage increments? My research shows this would cover 6 mass categories (45 tons, 55 tons, 70 tons, 80 tons, 90 tons, 95 tons). This would serve to augment existing Clan designs even though they are not modular in nature.

Clan Vehicle Notes (17 from TRO3060)
- Shamash Recon Vehicle (11 tons) jealously guarded by Clan Blood Spirit
- Asshur Artillery Spotter (20 tons) deployed by both the Steel Vipers and Ghost Bears in the InnerSphere
- Odin Scout Tank (20 tons) led the Jade Falcons to relegate all vehicles to either training or support roles
- Donar Assault Helicopter (21 tons) is used in a variety of different roles by different Clans. Hell’s Horses use it as a cavalry helicopter for anti-armor and fire support missions. Steel Viper uses it in second line clusters as a mobile fire support platform for infantry. Goliath Scorpion and Ice Hellion use it as a scout.
- Mithras Light Tank (25 tons) is used by all Clans but Kindraa Kline of the Fire Mandrill has the highest concentration
- Anhur Transport (30 tons) is assigned combat duties as needed by Fire Mandrill, Goliath Scorpion, Ice Hellion, and Snow Raven. Only the Blood Spirits, Hell’s Horses, and Star Adder permanently assign the vehicle to combat units as infantry support.
- Indra Infantry Transport (35 tons) was notoriously used on Turtle Bay by the Smoke Jaguar Clan
- Svantovit Infantry Fighting Vehicle (35 tons) used by every Clan with the Blood Spirit and Hell’s Horses deploying the most while Star Adder and Jade Falcon deploy the least
- Zorya Light Tank (35 tons) is largely deployed by the Blood Spirits and Cloud Cobras
- Ares Medium Tank (40 tons) is most commonly found in the ranks of Coyote and Wolf
- Hachiman Fire Support Tank (50 tons) is used by Blood Spirit, Hell’s Horses and Star Adder in front line roles
- Ku Wheeled Assault Tank (50 tons) was best known for the Steel Viper defense of Arcadia against the Ghost Bears
- Oro Heavy Tank (60 tons) is used by Steel Viper as AA against the Snow Ravens
- Ishtar Heavy Fire Support Tank (65 tons) is primarily manufactured by Hell’s Horses and Star Adder although Nova Cat and the rest of the Clans also use it as well
- Athena Combat Vehicle (75 tons) appears in almost every front line Cluster and Galaxy in Clan Hell’s Horses
- Huitzilopochtli Assault Tank (85 tons) is one of the few vehicles Jade Falcon consider support units which confers a certain amount of respect
- Mars Assault Tank (100 tons) used by all Clans in active garrison Clusters with Hell’s Horses maintain near constant production

Clan OmniVehicles
   Past Production
Badger Tracked Transport (30 tons, Tracked, Wolf,  tons of pod space) TRO3058U
Bandit Combat Hovercraft (50 tons, Hover, Wolf, Not OMNI?) TRO3058U
   Current Production
Epona Pursuit Tank (50 tons, Hover, Hell’s Horses, 17 tons of pod space) TRO3060

Looks good except for the missing word here.

  Changed slightly to slighted. I am sure there are more mistakes but I hope I conveyed that the Falcons were outmaneuvered by the Horses. Sure they would scream "dishonorable" or ambush and go on about if this was a stand up fight as it should be. Others will just roll there eyes and mumble tactics....

Filling the tonnage gaps means there'd to be little to no adaption of existing production of vehicles into omnivehicles, although tapping old SLDF chassis (or salvage from Inner Sphere battlefields) would be possible. It's still going to slow production.

Another category for pod-space I've used repeatedly for OmniVehicles is 17 tons (admittedly for the IS): enough for 15 tons of weapons and 2 of ammo. Given clan missile systems, something like that would easily fill the role of the traditional LRM Carrier and SRM carrier on a much smaller chassis.

Making OmniVehicles is likely easier than the more complex 'Mechs and Fighters. Although I do agree production would be slower just because Vehicle Designer is likely a non existent sub caste in Clan society if you get my drift.

Also the six missing tonnages are heavier than normal for the Clans with Vehicles who trend lighter but could filling these gaps make these heavier OmniVehicles more survivable?

Interesting design tactic drak.

How about a design strategy - how should the Clans set up this new OmniArmor Core?

I like it MA. Although I must say that 2 or 3 pre-existing OmniVehicles do exist. The Epona Pursuit Tank is already in production and I was thinking of putting the Badger Tracked Transport back into limited production. The Bandit Combat Hovercraft sounds like another possibility but I am not sure.

Modeling this after my old Shattered Dawn Vehicle Challenges I will go mostly for the creation of a Tank Corps.

1. Main Battle Tank. The one role and OmniVehicle I am sure the Clans must have in these contests. I was thinking it should be tracked. Likely a Heavy Vehicle say around 70 tons. Was thinking Hell's Horses would be the manufacturer and that it might carry an XL Engine. It would be the only Combat Vehicle to be so equipped. Very controversial and expensive.

2. Heavy Tank. Designed by the Blood Spirits it is much like the MBT except it is powered by a standard Fusion Engine. Tracked. Perhaps 60 tons. Cheaper, far less controversial and cheaper. Compared to the extravagance of the MBT this vehicle may be the key to the acceptance or failure of OmniVehicles.

3. Assault Tank. In between the MBT and the HAT this Tracked 80 tonner would combine 3/5 speed with impressive firepower.

4. Heavy Assault Tank. Say 90 or 95 tons. This tracked behemoth could be Wolves Heimdall and is likely slow (2/3) but armed to the teeth with long range weaponry.

5. Strike Tank. The lightest tracked tank weigh in at about 50 or so tons much like your Nike proposal MA.

6. Helicopter Gunship. Possibly the Ice Hellion entry for service in the Flurry units and quite possibly line units. Fast well armed for its size, max 30 tons of course it is a VTOL. Configuration or two may carry Elementals.

I must confess that a combat support Omni is intriguing but ultimately not front line enough for this initial series. These 7 OmniVehicles while authorized will be under intense scrutiny and must prove successful in combat.

How about a Submarine too? That would be a very Diamond Shark proposal.

I probably go heavier because of my desire to maximize pod space - meaning lighter vehicles could be too limited.

Thoughts??

I will try to open up the tonnages as much as possible drak.

Fusion Engines are the order of the day. Clan tech basis even shows on their standard Vehicles and the Omni program is a step up. ICE does not have a chance here at all.

Love the Universal Weapons Carrier idea. Lets roll out something that could do the job of the SRM/LRM/AC Carrier all in one. Can you fit it with Lasers or PPCs? How about Gauss Rifles? Or even Arrow IV Systems? I would place that into the heavy weight category. Speed isn't a priority. (3/5?) Possibly Diamond Shark as the manufacturer. Wonder if this would fit the Combat Support role that MA first forwarded. Could certainly serve as air defense, fire support, and artillery platform. Then you can sneak a Combat Engineer Configuration in - say with a Bridgelayer. I like it a lot. That is in.

That will join the Main Battle Tank (XL Engine) and the Heavy Tank (Fusion Engine) as three locks thus far. I was thinking of both as different flavors on the same theme. The MBT is the big deal of this contest with Hell's Horses, Wolf, Star Adder, and Ice Hellion all agreeing on the use of an XL Engine to match 'Mech speed (4/6 or 5/8) as well as firepower and armor. The Blood Spirit with their Fire Mandrill allies favoring a lower tech and weight approach to the MBT. Although I suppose it is possible we could roll that idea into the Strike Tank.

The Assault Tank and Strike Tank (Medium Tracked) will like be number four and five.

While Tracked Tanks are a large part of this effort (possibly making up 4 of 7 designs) we should have at least one Wheeled, one Hover, and one VTOL. For the Wheeled Vehicle I am thinking some kind of Urban Assault bad ass that can help maintain order in the Occupation Zone. I still like the Helicopter Gunship idea for the VTOL.

How about something like the Marechal Light Tanks that we did for BTSD Fanbook 3 - Mercenary Guild. Three different varied motive systems (Hover, Wheeled, Tracked) in a single design with the same components, power plant, electronics, armor, and this case pod space (weaponry). Could that work here??

The Submarine was just a wild idea. Riffing here bud. Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.

Gonna try drak!

Being fair, most of our vehicles in that weight range don't have the sizeable variety of equipment used on some BT assaultweight vehicles.

Let's look at the Behemoth tank for example. There would be a gunner for the turret (controlling the autocannon and SRM launchers), a gunner for the forward mounted weapons (LRMs, SRMs and machineguns), one or two gunners for the left and right weapons (SRMs and machineguns). Some of them may double as radio-operators and engineer/loaders (yes, I'm sure weapon loading is automated but when it goes wrong you need someone near enough to fix it - preferably without climbing outside). So four gunners, a driver and commander (might overlap with one or more gunner, might not).

Drawing on RL tanks, take a look at the M3 Lee from WWII. 27 tons and needed a crew of 7 to crew a tank with two autocannon and three or four machineguns. Granted much better automation but that still suggests that practical use of a tank festoned with up to a dozen weapon systems takes a number of crew.


I'll grant though, the Clans would probably much prefer one and two man crew tanks.

A 1-man 15-ton hovercraft moving at 10/15 with three tons of ferro-fibrous armor (15 front/15 right/15 left/12 rear) would have 5.0 tons remaining for pod-space.  Less than a 20-ton Fire Moth, I'll grant you, but with a lot more armor and the same base speed.  And only 1.5 fewer tons pod-space.  Drop the armor to 1.5 tons (7 points per facing) and that 15-ton vehicle would have the same 6.5 tons pod-space (33.3% pod-space for 5 tons and 43.33% pod-space for 6.5 tons, respectively) as the Fire Moth. 

An 8/12 15-ton VTOL with 2 tons of ferro-fibrous (10 front/10 right/10 left/5 rear/2 rotor) would have 8.0 tons of pod-space!  Half a ton less than a 40-ton Viper and moving at the same speed (albeit with far lighter armor!!).  Sure, the VTOL is much more vulnerable, but also a heck of a lot cheaper!

An 8/12 15-ton wheeled vehicle with 2 tons of FF (10/10/10/7) would have 6.0 tons of pod-space.

Tracked are the only real losers here, dropping to a 7/11 movement profile, keeping that 2.0 tons of armor, and having just 5.0 tons of pod-space.


For 30-tonners (with a single Warrior gunner/commander and a Tech driver/engineer), it looks like this:

Hover:  8/12 with 3.0 tons armor (15 front/10 right/10 left/15 turret/7 rear) with 13.5 tons of pod-space!!  (Minus the mass of the turret.)

VTOL:  10/15 with 3.0 tons armor (15/7/7/2 rotor) with 11.5 tons of pod-space!

Wheeled:  7/11 with 2.5 tons armor (10/10/10/10/7) with 11.5 tons of pod-space!  (Minus the mass of the turret.)

Tracked:  7/11 with 2.5 tons armor (10/10/10/10/7) with 9.5 tons of pod-space!  (Minus the mass of the turret.)


That is plenty of pod-space for such a light and inexpensive combat unit, especially one moving at those speeds!  In my opinion.

MA